Direct Editing in SOLIDWORKS (for simplifying complex imported geometry)

[Alin]

I know that @matt stated that you cannot do Direct Editing in SW, because Direct Editing requires not leaving a trace in the FeatureManager.

Well... you actually can. At least for quickly simplifying complex geometry where you want to crop out the inner faces and solidify back the result.
Watch this video and tell me if you would consider this technique useful:

https://youtu.be/Qwq1pH73owc

If you want to see more of the same, join me at 3DEXPERIENCE World to find even more use cases for this tool.

https://3dexperienceworld2023.smarteven ... ons#693318

[AlexLachance]

The delete face feature can also be an awesome tool to achieve similar results, although it adds feature to the tree, it gives you the possibility of having both geometries if the need ever arises.

The filter tab can be pretty useful to simplify selections also

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[Alin]

The delete face feature can also be an awesome tool to achieve similar results, although it adds feature to the tree, it gives you the possibility of having both geometries if the need ever arises.

I am glad you mentioned the Delete Face and showed the pros in using it. One chapter in my presentation is showing the cons of using this tool.

[bnemec]

I know that @matt stated that you cannot do Direct Editing in SW, because Direct Editing requires not leaving a trace in the FeatureManager.

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Alin, can you give context to this? I don't recall the scenario around that statement.

[RichGergely]

The delete face feature can also be an awesome tool to achieve similar results, although it adds feature to the tree, it gives you the possibility of having both geometries if the need ever arises.


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The filter tab can be pretty useful to simplify selections also
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I have to use the function a lot, way too much in fact. I get a lot of models that require tooling that lets just say haven't been designed right, imported in a neutral format with of course no history.

They come with loads of fillet rads on, and there is the issue. You can't redraft a face with fillet rads. So the bizarre process usually starts by removing the rads best you can with the delete face (fill/trim). Doing this takes a little experience, you often have to remove them in stages and knowing the likely groups in each stage helps. Once done you do what you need to do to modify the surfaces and the final stage is putting all those fillet rads back on.

Now this whole process could be massively simplified if Solidworks could draft correctly from a fillet or up to a fillet. In other words correcting the fillet geometry so it is tangent again. Obviously it would have limitations on the ability to do this depending on actual geometry.

[Alin]

They come with loads of fillet rads on, and there is the issue. You can't redraft a face with fillet rads. So the bizarre process usually starts by removing the rads best you can with the delete face (fill/trim). Doing this takes a little experience, you often have to remove them in stages and knowing the likely groups in each stage helps. Once done you do what you need to do to modify the surfaces and the final stage is putting all those fillet rads back on.

For simple fillets, you can do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43dzI_CIOq8

[Alin]

Alin, can you give context to this? I don't recall the scenario around that statement.

https://dezignstuff.com/does-solidworks ... t-editing/

[bnemec]

https://dezignstuff.com/does-solidworks ... t-editing/

Oh yeah... ST.

Admit it Alin, if Solidworks had done ST you'd been head over heels too. Throwing off the archaic ways of history-based modeling and showing the new tech off in blogs and videos.

Solid Edge has non-direct history based direct editing tools too, I think they call them something else.

[bnemec]

Another nice trick in the toolbox. Most of the vendor models I have to deal with are not that clean. That imported body looks like it was exported from Solidworks, it's so clean. Many of what I get aren't watertight or have more than just a couple faces attaching the inside to the outside. Because of that it takes several techniques combined together to get the job done. If we need to simplify the file back down for the sake of file size I'd just export xt and back in as a new file. If it's rebuilt time we might bring the freeze bar down, can be dangerous tool, but there's a time and place.

Are you going to show what the extrude to/from surface or body can do for filling in voids? Works strangely well in many times, I think because of all the injection molded parts that avoid undercuts. So often I can find a parting face, include geometry to get a profile, extrude up to face and I just filled in the void that the tool made when it was molded. Sometimes up to body works better; even that sometimes doesn't get it all but can uncheck "merge result" then make some edits on the tool body then combine them. Yeah they all leave features in the tree, if that's a bother just export the Parasolid and reimport. Next time it needs done (vendor revises and sends new model) will be simpler if we keep features and just roll back, insert the new model from vendor/customer select the new faces/body that the features are using, done. Strangely, sometimes the geometry IDs don't change with this workflow and it doesn't bugger the mates in the where used assemblies.

[Frederick_Law]

Delete Face and Move Face are both blessing and curse.

[RichGergely]

For simple fillets, you can do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43dzI_CIOq8

Yeah I use that sometimes but often it fails because of the model which seems to stem from either complexity or poor surfaces.

But yes it is useful when it works.

TBH I would assume the same issue would often occur if they did bring a draft function that worked with fillets - the same complexity or poor surfacing would be the main variable of it working.

Picture below shows fillet rads needing removing, Solidworks can't recognise it. but delete surface will remove it

[Alin]

Delete Face and Move Face are both blessing and curse.

Yup. That is why I love Import Diagnostics! Cropping those faces with such ease! It is like using scissors to modify the STEP file directly.

[matt]

Yay! Solidworks in one limited case can do almost as good as Solid Edge!

That's the spirit, but you've got to use the Import Diagnostic to get there. And it only handles the Delete Face type of function.

Now change the fillet values, change the hole diameters, angle the holes, move the holes off center, etc. Without adding rebuild time to your model. And do it 10 years ago instead of in some future promised software that current SW users will have to buy again to get.

Anyway, nice functionality.

[Alin]

@matt a bit offtopic, but do you know if I can delete a picture from the original post? The info about the MRI presentation is wrong. I deleted it in the editor, but it stays in the post.

Never mind. @Frederick_Law provided the answer.

[Frederick_Law]

Might need to delete the "Attachment".

Been there, done that

[Alin]

Might need to delete the "Attachment".

OMG, you are a genius!

[Alin]

Another nice trick in the toolbox. Most of the vendor models I have to deal with are not that clean. That imported body looks like it was exported from Solidworks, it's so clean. Many of what I get aren't watertight or have more than just a couple faces attaching the inside to the outside. Because of that it takes several techniques combined together to get the job done. If we need to simplify the file back down for the sake of file size I'd just export xt and back in as a new file. If it's rebuilt time we might bring the freeze bar down, can be dangerous tool, but there's a time and place.

Separating bodies using the technique I demonstrated works best with Import Diagnostics. Depending of what errors you have in the model, you might not be able to run the Delete Face feature because the result would have invalid geometry and SW will not allow you to complete the command.

Import Diagnostics works on the imported math data directly. It is like you are editing the original STEP file.

[AlexLachance]

Separating bodies using the technique I demonstrated works best with Import Diagnostics. Depending of what errors you have in the model, you might not be able to run the Delete Face feature because the result would have invalid geometry and SW will not allow you to complete the command.

Import Diagnostics works on the imported math data directly. It is like you are editing the original STEP file.

Why is import diagnostics able to do that but nothing else...? Sorry if it's a bit of a drastic and hard to answer question lol

[SPerman]

I wonder if it was developed in house or was a 3rd party tool they bought and integrated into SW.

[Alin]

Why is import diagnostics able to do that but nothing else...? Sorry if it's a bit of a drastic and hard to answer question lol

It is easy to answer the question. I will do it at the World.

[AlexLachance]

It is easy to answer the question. I will do it at the World.

Meanie.

[Frederick_Law]

Why is import diagnostics able to do that but nothing else...? Sorry if it's a bit of a drastic and hard to answer question lol

Probably it clean up the problem before it create the model.
Now the real question is, why import didn't do the clean up first?

[Alin]

Meanie.

You could watch the recording.

[AlexLachance]

You could watch the recording.

You know I most likely will You always have interesting presentations.

[Alin]

Probably it clean up the problem before it create the model.
Now the real question is, why import didn't do the clean up first?

Good question! We should be able to do that now with AI.

How come no one asked that in this year TTL? That would have been a serious idea!

[Arthur NY]

Alin is a VAR tech dude..... nothing against that but it's rare that VAR tech people go outside of their bubble to understand what they don't know. Matt is correct in this statement when it comes to the tools in Solidworks. They've been outdated for over a decade and are there a few things here and there that make it a direct modeling system, sure, but it's a world of pain and frustration and way more hurdles than it needs to be. What's worse is that there's been VERY little improvement in this area for quite some time. I can say this because I use to work at a VAR and it's a pretty big echo chamber within those walls....

I mean the part shown in the video is SO shill it's not even funny. Importing files are never that short in list of entities to fix. Throw too much at it and IF it fixes the file it's hit or miss.

I'd give the ability to change geometry by pulling the dimensions a better qualifying mark for direct editing than some of the features that are listed as such.

Take "Move Face" for instance.... Using offset gives no Triad BUT use Rotate or Translate and you do. Inconsistent. Guess what can't be done..... you can't use any of the three within the same feature which means if you want to do a translate and a rotate that's two separate features!!!! That's the exact opposite of direct editing.

Using "Copy" within the Move Face and choose to just "Translate" a face upwards..... oh wait can't do that which one could say "Yes that's supposed to happen" But if I use the FreeForm command and do the same thing at an edge guess what the feature is smart enough to fill in.

It's always said....Right tool for the right job..... Solidworks just isn't in the race when it comes to direct editing.

[josh]

So... Just one point. Seems to me that a triad makes no sense with "offset". With offset you can select multiple different faces that point in different directions. By definition offset goes normal to those faces. What would you do with a triad in that case?

[Arthur NY]

@josh The point of Direct Editing, holistically speaking, is that the changes are taking place on the screen. Not in a dialog box over on the side. Having the Triad on the screen means you get to move and see the changes on the screen. There's nothing "wrong" with it being where it is but it's extra mouse travel for no reason when having the Triad keeps your mouse onscreen with the model.

The reason why this bothers me even more is that with just hotkeys and the pop up bar much of my modeling requires next to no menus needed but the inconsistencies when inputs into fields in the property manager requires fields to be filled in, it's very much 1995. We're in 2023 there needs to be a ton more built into the UI/UX that makes it more efficient to just model on screen. Yes the property manager can be popped out and placed "anywhere" but this again it not the same as building more of that into onscreen functionality.

Here's a quick example where building functionality into the Pie Menu rather than having to have drop down menus to get to certain aspects would significantly more about onscreen time.

[berg_lauritz]

I know that @matt stated that you cannot do Direct Editing in SW, because Direct Editing requires not leaving a trace in the FeatureManager.

Well... you actually can. At least for quickly simplifying complex geometry where you want to crop out the inner faces and solidify back the result.
Watch this video and tell me if you would consider this technique useful:

https://youtu.be/Qwq1pH73owc

If you want to see more of the same, join me at 3DEXPERIENCE World to find even more use cases for this tool.

https://3dexperienceworld2023.smarteven ... ons#693318

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I really do not like the direct editing with that technique because it is painfully slow. If I would do the same with features I do have more control and I am usually WAY faster. I would love for SolidWorks to fix this slowness before I start using this.

[Alin]

Alin is a VAR tech dude..... nothing against that but it's rare that VAR tech people go outside of their bubble to understand what they don't know.

Just curious about the meaning of “understand what they don’t know”.

[Arthur NY]

Just curious about the meaning of “understand what they don’t know”.

It means working for a VAR, and understandably so, you have to promote the solutions you are given. This generally means that you "can't talk about" too many short comings or other softwares that can actually do and are better solutions. It's like the song says.... "We don't talk about Bruno.....!!!":)

Your initial post was that Matt said "Can't" which is a bit of an over statement if you've really read any of his books or blog posts. What Solidworks offers falls far and short of real direct editing. Point is if you've really used these types of tools you'd understand that....hence my comment.

[Alin]

It means working for a VAR, and understandably so, you have to promote the solutions you are given. This generally means that you "can't talk about" too many short comings or other softwares that can actually do and are better solutions. It's like the song says.... "We don't talk about Bruno.....!!!":)

Your initial post was that Matt said "Can't" which is a bit of an over statement if you've really read any of his books or blog posts. What Solidworks offers falls far and short of real direct editing. Point is if you've really used these types of tools you'd understand that....hence my comment.

Thanks for the clarification, @Arthur NY .

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Alin Vargatu and I am the Technical Editor of @matt 's Mastering SolidWorks book.
If you are curious about what I do, you can also read the interview @matt posted here: https://dezignstuff.com/9760-2/

The other little detail I wanted to point out is the color of the text in my original post. If you read his blog you probably noticed that a certain color is designated for sarcasm.

[Arthur NY]

Hello Alin, nice to meet you. That very well may have been sarcasm but some took it here as kind of a "well what does that really mean" hence some of the questions posted.

In the end SW fell off a long time ago and has not progressed really in over 10 years. You could use all of the books Matt wrote today and you'd be 90% well on your way. This isn't to say that there hasn't been any change but there were still things lacking back then that are, to this day, still short comings.

If I'm able I'll stop by your session at 3D Widget World.... I'll be the one throwing virtual tomatoes at you!!! Then we can go out and grab a few brews....

[mp3-250]

For me as a former UG NX user direct modellIng is a set if tools that allow parametric, unparametric, associative or not associative edits depending on the situation. all with the common point of avoiding a potentially disastrous roll back in a complex tree or for an imported geometry.

Compared to NX SW tools are nice toys, but (as usual) SLOW, limited in scope, and forced previews (like in move face) made some command almost unusable.
aside from delete face I don't use those toys anymore, we prefer to import and re import the parasolid after cleaning up the geometry with normal features.
iirc when I tried to use some direct editing in the past, SW model size doubled every time, but my memory could be wrong.